Episode 10: Mayra Diaz, LMFT
Jessica Fowler: Welcome to episode 10 of season one. This is very exciting because season one is now complete. It will be a few weeks until season two is released, but don't worry over the next few weeks, I'm going to be focusing on the giveaways. You can follow along on therapy books podcast over on Instagram to be updated at how to register for the giveaway.
This week, we are talking with Myra Diaz, MS LMFT about her book, The Panic attack Relief Workbook: A Seven Week Plan for Overcoming Fear, Managing Panic and Finding Calm. Myra specializes in anxiety and OCD treatment. She is certified in cognitive behavioral therapy and trained in exposure and response prevention. She has a private practice in Los Angeles, California.
Welcome back listeners. Today we are talking to Myra Diaz about her new book, The Panic Attack Relief Workbook. Welcome.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Hi, thank you for having me.
Jessica Fowler: Thanks for being on the show. I'm excited to talk to you about this topic.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: I am too.
Jessica Fowler: Can you share a little bit about yourself?
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Sure. Uh, I am a private practice, uh, therapist in LA, California. And, uh, I specialize in anxiety, OCD and working with people of color. And I recently got the opportunity to write this workbook on panic, which is something that I do work with a lot.
Jessica Fowler: Oh, that's exciting. Do you want to share a little bit about your book?
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Sure, um, it is a workbook, so it's really intended to, for the reader to work through it on their own. The first three chapters are really more educational content, essentially learning about panic, what your treatment options are, things like that. And then the last Seven chapters are going to be the seven weeks that the reader would work themselves through. It's basically helping readers understand their own cycle of panic.
Um, you know, when it comes to anxiety, what we really break it into are your thoughts, your feelings, and your behaviors. So, the workbook helps a person when they're going through it, understand that for themselves, understand how to regulate their emotions, uh, how to under, how to identify thoughts that might be getting in the way and even most importantly, how to spot behaviors that are probably sucking them right back into the cycle of fear, how to interrupt that cycle, um, and use basically exposure therapy for themselves to face their fears so they can break out of it.
Jessica Fowler: Um, what are, so it is a seven-week program, right? So, each chapter kind of takes you through each of those steps. And it starts with talking about what panic is and where it comes from. Do you want to share a little bit about that? Because I think that's something that often can be misunderstood.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Sure, of course. So, essentially what panic is, is your natural fight, flight and freeze response. So, all of us at some point have probably felt panic because it's a natural reaction to a legitimate crisis. If a car was about to hit you, if there was a hurricane, your body. shifts into a mode of panic to protect you. Uh, so panic itself is really not a bad thing. Uh, and something that I think is really important to take away from the book is that it's not dangerous. It can be really uncomfortable when you shift into that space of panic. What's happening in your body is there just a lot of changes going on. So that your body can protect itself. And those changes can be really uncomfortable, especially when you don't understand what's happening.
So that first part of the book goes into, uh, the kind of physiological changes that are happening. Why is your heart beating? Uh, why are your palms sweaty? There's actually a function for all of that. All of those symptoms are just your body's different attempts to protect you from something that's. Kind of attack you or something that might hurt you. So that's essentially what panic is and where it comes from is Your brain registering something as a threat, and sometimes that threat is real. And so, your panic initiates because you need to protect yourself from something. And sometimes your brain is misinterpreting something as a threat. It's basically a false alarm and so, when panic can become a problem is when your brain has taken something, interpreted as a threat, and it just keeps giving you that alarm. That then leads you to some behaviors that, um, while they might seem helpful in the short term are actually just reinforcing that fear. And that's how people can kind of get stuck.
Jessica Fowler: Absolutely. They keep doing it because they think it was helping, but really it's not helping. Yeah. They haven't learned that yet. Or maybe dead for the first time or a broad moment of relief. Right. But it doesn't get to the goal. That's one of the things you talk about. Like what's the goal, right?
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think what's really important to understand about anxiety is that it's a counterintuitive problem. What I mean by that is, you know, it is uncomfortable. So, it makes sense that you would try to get away from it because that's a natural response. Of course, we're going to try to get away from things that are uncomfortable, but avoidance reinforces fear. So, everything that you do to try to get away from anxiety is actually bringing it closer to you and getting you stuck. Um, so I think often with people, they just were never taught that. So the things that you're doing to deal with it make absolute sense. And they just, unfortunately, aren't working in the context of anxiety.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah, absolutely. It is our go to to try to push it away or distract or do something when really as therapists, we work a lot on. you know, showing that they can working on being able to tolerate the feeling, right? Because like you said, it's not an actual threat.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah. Yeah. Again, I think a really important thing to understand about anxiety is that it is uncomfortable, but not dangerous and that you can tolerate discomfort, especially in, in the book, it talks about this a little bit for the things that you care about.
If you want to public speak, if you want to ask people on dates, if you want to go out and live in the world, you can face that anxiety for the things that you care about. Uh, and I think it can be really liberating for people to learn that, hey, I can still live my life and then that paradoxically can help you get relief from anxiety.
Jessica Fowler: One of the things I liked about this book is you had different ways of sharing that information. So, like you have, you know, I guess a case study, right? Like a case or, you know, how that works, but also, um, your diagrams and, but I liked the quizzes. I'm a quiz person. And so, I say quiz, I'll use that term very loosely. So not to, you know, make anyone worried that they're going to be tested, but just like, it was just another way of like, you took the information and then you presented it in different ways that I, to me read as, right. Like, if I don't understand it this way, or maybe I'm a learner this way. That I can, you know, I can get the information a different way.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: I appreciated that. Yeah. Um, I think that's a lot of what I've learned through my career. Um, and really kind of the way that I try to approach the book is an understanding that, you know, there are a lot of coping tools out there, but they're not going to work for everyone all the time. And it's okay to acknowledge that if something didn't work, it doesn't mean that you failed really just means that you need to examine it. Maybe there's a reason. Maybe there's something you can take from it. Maybe you can adapt. And that's really a large part of why all the activities are so different, to give you those opportunities to learn what's the best style for me to learn, and then kind of build from that.
Jessica Fowler: And what are the modalities that you discuss in here?
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Uh, that, uh, what I use in the book is mostly CBT, um, exposure therapy, and a little bit of acceptance and commitment therapy thrown in, uh, and definitely just a really strong foundation of mindfulness throughout.
Jessica Fowler: And self compassion, which I loved that you talked about that. It's one of my topics. I love to discuss. And so.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah, I think, uh, self-compassion is a pretty essential component of any mental health struggle. Often what we're struggling with isn't so much the thing that we're struggling against, but how we're treating ourselves while we struggle with that. So, um, I think it was really important to incorporate self-compassion and to really keep reminding yourself to practice because you might read it in a book, learn about it.
Okay. That was great. And then you're in the middle of your struggle and you're being mean to yourself again. So just keep reminding yourself, Oh yeah, that's that way that I need to approach myself that will make it easier for me to deal with this.
Jessica Fowler: You are, you're very right. It's not the struggle. It's, I mean, it is the struggle, but it's not the struggle that's causing a lot of the problems. It's the act it's the way that we treat ourselves. Often the blaming and negative self-talk that comes along with it.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, um, I think a lot of what happens with panic, you know, obviously panic is a really uncomfortable experience. And so, what can happen is people really, really start to put themselves down about how they're responding to it. Like if I was just strong enough, I'm being too weak and that's really not the case. It's the fact that you probably weren't taught a lot of the ways that you could respond to this in a healthy way. And you keep beating yourself up about it. It's just going to keep triggering your panic responses.
You're going to treat yourself like you're the threat, which is going to make it worse. So really approaching yourself with kindness and gentleness is the only way through.
Jessica Fowler: And even if you've gotten, so you do it to yourself or if you get that message from other people, like, why are you panicking? Nothing happened, right? Because a lot of times panic can feel like it comes out of nowhere. And if people are not understanding that can be very.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah, yeah, a lot of my clients come to me with, um, you know, the people around you really care. And so they're very well meaning, but when you're struggling with a problem, especially if it's something that's been going on for so long, everybody wants to give you feedback. And often my clients are coming to me with feedback with ideas, things they've tried, you know, I lit a candle, I did this and not that those things are inherently wrong, but it can get really jumbled. Everybody's different opinions. And then you can again, start judging yourself. Well, all these people are giving me feedback and nothing is working there must be wrong, something wrong with me. And that's not the case. It's probably just, you're getting feedback from people who aren't professionals in the field who don't really have a depth of understanding and also don't understand your personal cycle. And I think that's what's really important in the book. Learning your cycle is how you get through. It's not how somebody else got through it.
Jessica Fowler: I noticed that in there. I liked that they have a nice diagram for that, like explaining that, and then having somebody else, you're having the space for them to look at their own diagram. Like, what does that look like for me? Cause it's different. And the symptoms are different. People have different experiences when it comes to panic.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah. Um, something else that I think that was really important in the book is, um, understanding the role of your amygdala and that your amygdala is really, you know, that part of your brain that is constantly monitoring your environment to find threat to protect you from it. And that your amygdala doesn't learn through logical cause and effect. Your amygdala is learning through association. So, if you were bit by a dog that flares up your fear, your amygdala notices that, and then it, you know, when you see a dog again, it's going to flare up fear. If you're a bit by a dog at a pool, the smell of chlorine can become a trigger too, because it just associated that. And so, I think what's important about every individual's cycle is that, you know, maybe you're afraid of something that seems really silly and that's not your fault and that's not weak and there's nothing wrong with you. Your brain just registered something as a trigger because it's not built to register things as triggers through cause and effect in the logical relationship. So, it's not your fault. And we understand the science to be able to help you change that relationship. You just need to learn the process, but something wrong with you that you couldn't figure it out until this point.
Jessica Fowler: And that's so true, just understanding the science behind it. Understanding how our brains work is something we don't often talk about, right? So, something we really necessarily learn. I think, you know, kids now are getting better about, you know, whether through parents or school talking about the feelings, there's more talk about mental health, but really, there is just a science of this is how your brain works and this is why this happened. Right? Even panic, right? There's science understanding why your heart is beating faster, why you're sweating, right? Like what is actually happening. And then when, as you talk about become the observer, right? Like this is just happening to me. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, right? It's just, I can notice that this is what's happening. It can be very powerful.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah, I say this all the time about anxiety. I think most people's struggle is that it feels like a mystery when it's happening. Oh my God, this is overwhelming. I don't know where it's coming from. And that's because we're not doing a good enough job educating people about it. We're not sharing this information, but, um, I've witnessed it with my clients, you know, when they can understand, oh, my heart is beating faster because it's just trying to prepare my muscles to defend itself. Oh, that makes sense. Oh, I don't have to be afraid of that. Um, so I'm really, really passionate about the science guiding our treatment.
Um, and I do think that therapy is kind of a marriage between art and science, you know, obviously we're, we're people, we're not numbers, you have to be flexible, but I think using the foundation of science can be really, really powerful for everyone to learn. I can learn about this. I can become the expert in my cycle and I can face life the way that I want.
Jessica Fowler: Well, thank you. Who do you, who would you say this book is for?
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Um, I would say this book is for people who have started having panic attacks or, um, a lot of people that come to me might not even know that it is panic. I've just started feeling some weird symptoms in their body, feeling uncomfortable. They don't really know why it's for people who have maybe tried a few different things and it's not really helping and people who are motivated to do the work on their own. Because the reality about dealing with anxiety is that it's hard. Uh, fear is uncomfortable. So, facing it is uncomfortable. So, you're really ready.
You're in that place where, okay, I've tried all these other things. It's not working. I'm ready to open up to something that might be a little bit challenging, but that might really change my life. Um, I would also say it's for therapists. Um, I think it can be really, really helpful for therapists to use this with their clients. Uh, and I would actually. Wonder, you know, if, if, if your panic is a little more intense, if it's been going on for longer, this might be overwhelming to do on your own. Mm-Hmm, . So if you feel that way, you buy the book, you start getting a little anxious, uh, it's hard to, you know, get into it. That's okay. That might be a sign for you to contact a therapist and then work through it together. Say, hey, I have this resource, but it's a little too much for me to manage on my own. Can you help me with that?
Jessica Fowler: That makes a lot of sense. And I just want to note too, I love that you said that you, you may not realize what you're having is panic attacks, because I feel like I have those conversations like, oh, this thing happened. I don't know what that was. I was just feeling really, really overwhelmed. Okay, well, what happened to your body? That might have been actually a panic attack, right? Like just even starting to understand what some of these things are and what's happening to the body is really important for people to be able to get better, right? To be able to, you know, move forward. It's very hard to do when you don't understand what you're actually dealing with.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah, yeah. Um, and you know, again, so you might not know what it is. So maybe you pick up the book and you realize, oh, it's maybe not panic disorder because that's really a lot of what I talk about panic disorder, which is that fear of the fear sensations themselves. Um, if you pick up the book, you realize I'm not really dealing with panic disorder. That's not what the book was written for, other anxiety disorders, but I do look at anxiety as a pretty straight line when it comes to treatment. So, you can replace a lot of the things that are intended for panic disorder for other kinds of anxieties.
So, if you're reading through it and you realize that actually what I'm dealing with the social anxiety. It's okay. Then replace fear, panic as the trigger, replace that with the other thing that's causing your anxiety, social anxiety, public speaking, uh, heights, needles, whatever it might be. So, it's not designed for other anxieties, but if you pick it up, you realize this isn't exactly my problem. You can still apply it to your problem and get really helpful things from it.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. I can see that, that you can just sort of replace it with whatever you're looking at. Is there any other takeaways you would like your readers to walk away with?
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: I think it's really important as you go through, uh, again, coming back to that concept of compassion to acknowledge you're going to struggle. There are going to be moments where that intervention didn't work, or you tried this and it went terribly, or you got stuck in a piece of the book, and to really normalize that's part of the process. Um, what I also say a lot is fear is convincing. It's meant to be so you're going to get stuck, likely you're going to have moments where you want to give up. And I really encourage you take the break that you need, take care of yourself in the way that you need to build yourself back up, but really try to push through because what fear is trying to do is convince you to stop. It's trying to convince you to get stuck. And again, it's really trying to protect you, but when it's giving you that false alarm, it's not doing what it's intending. So really try to dust your knees off and get back up again. And if you need outside support, your friends, your family, a therapist, acknowledge that. But really, really try not to give up in the process. Because if you really push through, that's when you can get to that point of freedom. Uh, and kind of on the flip side of pushing through, actually, in my own personal process of anxiety, I learned a lot in completing this book. And, uh, one of the things that I really took for myself is I've always been the kind of person that did a lot of things that might be frightening. I've gone skydiving. I've done public speaking. These things make me anxious. Um, but I've always still struggled with anxiety and I wasn't really sure why. And writing this book really helped me realize. I think what I was doing was, uh, white knuckling and white knuckling is basically bracing yourself against fear. It's like, um, gripping onto the handle of a car when they're taking a sharp turn. And again, we know avoidance reinforces fear. So, if you're white knuckling, if you're clenching up your muscles, you're bracing against the thing that you're afraid of, there's really just another way to avoid your fear. So, as you go through this process, um, I really encourage you to try to lean into your fear. To open up, uh, because that's really changing your relationship with it. And as an example, in my own life, uh, I take salsa classes. Um, I really like dancing, but I'm also pretty inherently uncoordinated. So, it's been a big process of me facing my own fear. And one of the things that we've recently been doing is dips, dance dips, and it's been really, really hard for me because I'm afraid of falling.
Uh, so every time somebody tried to dip me, I would tense up. And that would actually make it more likely that I would fall and in writing this book and realizing, hey, you might be white knuckling through some of the things that you do. You face things that you're afraid of, but you're bracing yourself against it. That, uh, opportunity presented itself to kind of change how I approach that and salsa and couple of weeks ago actually was the first time that somebody kind of threw me into a dip and I consciously unclenched. I opened up my posture. I released my muscles. I allowed myself into a dip. And that was the first time that I actually landed it. So.
Jessica Fowler: That's awesome.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Thank you. Uh, I think it's really important when dealing with your anxiety to notice any way that you might be bracing against it and try to open up and let go. Because that's how you can get to a place of freedom.
Jessica Fowler: It is true. I love that example because I think that there, I know there are many places that in the body we do that, right. But in example after example, it's that when we release that it is easier.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah. Yeah. Learning to bring your anxiety close to have a relationship with it on purpose instead of trying to push it away is what can finally help you be free of it as the thing that's been stopping you all along.
Jessica Fowler: One of the many messages that is said over and over on this podcast. So, and I would say to the other one I would add is, I guess, not necessarily a takeaway but one that I say as a reminder that this work right when you pick up this book that it's work to do it and you have to be very conscious of it, right? Like to have even just the awareness of what's happening to your body, but like when you start to change your thoughts, when you wanna do a meditation, when you're looking at your cycle, right? It takes, it's not I do it once, therefore I'm, I'm now cured. Right, it's a lot of work to change that. And so not to be discouraged, I guess.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Yeah, uh, you know, the workbook is framed in seven weeks, but I say this in the book. I don't think that your process of dealing with anxiety is over in seven weeks, and you might still have panic attacks at the end of those seven weeks. I think about learning to have a healthy relationship with your anxiety as a lifelong journey. You're constantly working on it and coming back to you said about, you know, just not just trying once. A lot of this is just practice. So, if you try it the once and it goes terribly, you're just building a muscle.
So, if you're weightlifting, you know, and you just started, your arms would be weak. It'd be hard to get those weights up there, but the more that you do it, the better you get. So, I also encourage people with the book. If you try just once. Don't give up, give it a few tries before you make your judgment about it and keep reminding yourself I'm practicing, I'm practicing.
Being bad at this is part of the process until I finally get to that place where I feel confident.
Jessica Fowler: Absolutely. Um, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Thank you for having me.
Jessica Fowler: Where can our listeners connect with you?
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Uh, the best place to connect with me would be my website.
Uh, that's MyradiazTherapy. com. Uh, I've got a blog there so they can follow some of my writing. You can book an appointment with me. I do have availability right now. Uh, and the kinds of therapy that I'm really practicing and my practice, which you'll learn more about on my website is a little bit of CBT, a little bit of exposure or even ERP exposure and response prevention, uh, some acceptance and commitment therapy. And again, that really strong foundation of mindfulness throughout. And you're licensed in California, right? Yes. Uh, I practice in California and I'm currently practicing virtually. So, I provide telehealth throughout the state.
Jessica Fowler: Excellent. Well, thank you so much for coming on today.
Mayra Diaz, LMFT: Thank you.
Jessica Fowler: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of what your therapist is reading. Make sure you head on over to the website or social media to find out if there's a giveaway going on. The information provided in this program is for educational and informational purposes only. And although I'm a social worker licensed in the state of New York, this program is not intended to provide mental health treatment and does not constitute a patient therapist relationship.